Chechen president is said to have greater control than Russian forces - NTVChechen representatives stress to Russian television that Chechnya genuinely wants peace and that constructive proposals are on the table, firmly placing the ball in Russia's court. Chechen separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov is said to be more in control of Chechnya and the rebel fighters than the federal forces are, but does not wield sufficient power to force the most militant field commanders to lay down their arms. The following is the text of an interview with Maskhadov's representative Akhmed Zakayev and the Chechen deputy to the Russian parliament Aslambek Aslakhanov broadcast on Russian NTV on 19 November.
The peace talks
[Presenter] What specific steps can Aslan Maskhadov's entourage suggest? I put This question to Akhmed Zakayev, Maskhadov's representative, who is speaking to us by phone from Istanbul. Hello, Akhmed. What can you offer in response to [Russian presidential representative to the Southern Federal District] Viktor Kazantsev's statement [who has said there is no point continuing talks with Maskhadov's representatives unless they have something concrete to offer, specifically with regard to disarming the gunmen and their return to civilian life]?
[Zakayev] Hello, good evening. For two years, Maskhadov and his comrades-in-arms have been represented as bloodthirsty warriors but our consistent commitment to peace is demonstrated by Aslan Maskhadov's reaction in response to Putin's statement and my meeting with Kazantsev yesterday [18 November].
[Presenter] Akhmed, Kazantsev said today that he's not happy with talks about theories. He needs real proposals, practical steps of some kind from Maskhadov. What can you offer?
[Zakayev] You know, Putin's statement of 24 September has been received in two ways by Russian society: some see it as an ultimatum, others as a proposal to begin a peace dialogue. Over time, the second view has won out, although even today there are some people who can't imagine life without ultimatums. If the Chechens are mistaken regarding Putin's celebrated statement, we are consoled by the fact that those who are mistaken include US President George Bush, himself, who, during Putin's recent visit to America, publicly backed the Russian president precisely for his dialogue with the Chechens.
[Presenter] Akhmed, excuse me for interrupting but you're simply not answering -
[Zakayev] As for what we can offer, we didn't start this war. We can only reiterate our commitment to a peaceful settlement to the conflict.
[Presenter] Okay.
[Zakayev] I have just heard [pro-Moscow head of the Chechen administration Akhmad] Kadyrov. I think that in any war there are supporters and opponents, and our statement, our readiness and my own meeting with Kazantsev is confirmation of our commitment to a dialogue about peace
[Presenter] Akhmed, don't hang on. We've another guest in the studio. A State Duma deputy and also a Chechen - Aslambek Akhmedovich Aslakhanov.
Aslambek Akhmedovich, you've heard what Akhmed Zakayev had to say. Can this really be seen as a political statement? What do you think? Is Aslan Maskhadov's entourage currently capable of taking specific steps as demanded by the president's representative in the Southern Federal District?
[Aslakhanov] Good evening, to be frank, I'd been waiting for that meeting and when it took place I really did expect some positive results, and then Zakayev told a news conference in Ankara this morning that he was satisfied with the start of the discussion with the president's representative, Kazantsev. Kazantsev's statement that there had been a meeting. Occasionally he expressed not satisfaction perhaps but basically he isn't denying that the dialogue should and probably will continue if there are constructive proposals on Maskhadov part.
[Presenter] But you can see there have been no proposals. At least I didn't hear any.
[Aslakhanov] You know, it would have been very surprising no doubt. A dialogue is a dialogue. Dialogues no doubt enable the question of who is to take part in the negotiating process, who there will be on each side and it is there that specific issues are raised that need further working and interpretation to be later talked about at a presidential level. [Presenter] Akhmed, I have a question for you. You took part directly in the talks. What demands did Kazantsev put forward? What generally did you talk about? [Zakayev] Let's start by saying that we put no demands to one another. There was a dialogue and I think it was a constructive dialogue. We discussed measures, ways of putting a speedy stop to military action in the Chechen republic and who does or doesn't like this, that's another matter. The fact is that we hold ourselves responsible to some extent for what is happening in the republic and if the media continue to place all the responsibility on us, saying we don't want peace, then we say it again. Listen: What is happening in the republic today? There is the situation of hundreds of thousands of refugees, who are again spending the winter in inhuman conditions, not to mention those in the republic itself. Every day they are subjected to repressions. They disappear without trace. But, today, against the backdrop of the planned peaceful dialogue, we hear the utterances of the so called politicians or mass of politicians who cannot bear the fact that this endless lawlessness in Chechnya can be stopped and that the rule of law can be restored.
[Presenter] Akhmed, all right, Akhmed, I have a question for you. Who's in control in Chechnya?
[Zakayev] Today the federal forces are not in control. They are in control in those locations where they are concentrated.
[Presenter] Okay.
[Zakayev] And those mercenaries that Russia has driven there simply torment people and make fun of them.
[Presenter] Akhmed, let's not focus on political statements at the moment, but let's spend a bit of time on practical matters. How real is [Chechen separatist leader] Aslan Maskhadov's influence among the rebel fighters at the present time? This question often comes up, and many people say that he is not in control of the situation at the present time, is not in control of either [Chechen field commander Shamil] Basayev or [Chechen rebel field commander] Khattab. What can you tell us. How much power does he really wield?
[Zakayev] Yes, let's start with the fact that Maskhadov is the president of the Chechen republic. He was legally elected and recognized first of all by the Russian public and by the international community. I met Kazantsev not as Zakayev, but on the orders of President Maskhadov.
[Presenter] Okay, but who does he control, Akhmed?
[Zakayev] He authorized me to do that.
[Presenter] Akhmed, whom does Maskhadov control? Whom does Maskhadov control? That is what I am asking you.
[Zakayev] Maskhadov has greater control of the republic than the federal forces do. I can state responsibly that Maskhadov is in greater control than the Russian troops if we are saying who has more and who has less. And if some specific steps are needed to today, they cannot be discussed in the press. I brought some specific proposals with me . These proposals will be conveyed to President [Vladimir] Putin, and the further development of this dialogue will depend completely on the stance taken by the Russian leadership.
[Present] All right, thank you, Akhmed. Now I have a question for Aslambek Aslakhanov. You have just heard what Akhmed Zakayev has said. What do you think? Is Maskhadov really in control of the situation at the current time, lets say among the Chechen armed formations on the territory of Chechnya?
[Aslakhanov] You know, I have repeatedly said what I think about this. According to the information that I have, he is in control of all the armed formations. It is only logical. If Maskhadov were not there, he would have to be invented, because, if there were no president or leader, there would just be groups of gangs, each operating as they thought fit. They need him. What Khattab and Basayev control is another matter. I have repeatedly heard that they have their own agenda and there are situations when they will never obey the instructions of Maskhadov, like the demands of the federal side that Khattab and Basayev should be given up and they should disarm., just as Maskhadov will never be able to force them to lay down their arms.
[Presenter ] Thank you. You have been listening to the view of Aslambek Aslakhanov, deputy of the Russian State Duma for Chechnya, and Akhmed Zakayev, the representative of Aslan Maskhadov at the negotiations with the presidential representative in the Southern Federal District, Viktor Kazantsev. |
